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Mar 3, 2015
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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The MAJOR deficiencies in the current wrestler ...is SET-UP and COUNTER. Old school guys hit their moves off mistakes and for every move their is a counter. This FUNK Gen- is not disciplined in finishing moves. Most times- it is half a move and then a scramble fest. Might look good yet, it is a significant display of lack of set-up. Rarely even the BEST kids stand opp their opponent without creating any angles-
Even the GREAT Jordan Burroughs - has gotten away with a TERRIBLE deficiency. He hits doubles off his knees- this is a NO- NO !!! Fortunately, he is the most superior in this current gen of wrestler at SET-UP. He hits his double when the wrestler is off balance , out of position, or has not reacted.
COACHING. Look with all due respect to the guys who put in the time. Many of today's Coaches werent GREAT wrestlers-and - who were not schooled correctly when they did wrestle. Many cant show a kid how to ride because they couldnt ride themselves. Most do not spend the time to REPETITIVELY DRILL simplistic moves until it is second nature. We have skipped- ALL - the other stuff just for the need to win. It has become this mentality. "My Mighty Mouse is better than your Mighty Mouse".
There is so much more..... but, who's listening to a JV Quitter..lol
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Mar 3, 2015
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quickpick
Joined: Jan 9, 2015
Posts: 284
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LImarty wrote:The MAJOR deficiencies in the current wrestler ...is SET-UP and COUNTER. Old school guys hit their moves off mistakes and for every move their is a counter. This FUNK Gen- is not disciplined in finishing moves. Most times- it is half a move and then a scramble fest. Might look good yet, it is a significant display of lack of set-up. Rarely even the BEST kids stand opp their opponent without creating any angles-
I agree....
LImarty wrote:Even the GREAT Jordan Burroughs - has gotten away with a TERRIBLE deficiency. He hits doubles off his knees- this is a NO- NO !!! Fortunately, he is the most superior in this current gen of wrestler at SET-UP. He hits his double when the wrestler is off balance , out of position, or has not reacted.
Strongly disagree.....while the technique may look flawed are you really telling me that the competition at the International level has slipped as well? You being the advocate that you are of international competition and how far behind we are? His blast double has worked at ALL levels and IMO is due to his freakish explosiveness, not watered down competition.
LImarty wrote:COACHING. Look with all due respect to the guys who put in the time. Many of today's Coaches werent GREAT wrestlers-and - who were not schooled correctly when they did wrestle. Many cant show a kid how to ride because they couldnt ride themselves. Most do not spend the time to REPETITIVELY DRILL simplistic moves until it is second nature. We have skipped- ALL - the other stuff just for the need to win. It has become this mentality. "My Mighty Mouse is better than your Mighty Mouse".
There is so much more..... but, who's listening to a JV Quitter..lol
Again I agree
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Mar 3, 2015
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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Again, I might not be explaining myself correctly. Jordan Burroughs was special as a High School SR- I can attest to this after seeing him a handful of times. What I am suggesting is his ability to score- with his own technique that for a 100 yrs was thought to be a taboo way of hitting a blast double from your knees. His ability at being proficient in "set-up" has allowed him to be an Olympic Champ. His athletic ability has allowed him to hit doubles off his knees.
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Mar 3, 2015
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mbsuxx
Joined: Feb 3, 2007
Posts: 462
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quickpick wrote:Falcs96 wrote:Agreed!!!!!! One tournament, 36 man brackets. But it will never happen, unfortunately. The powers love giving out additional hardware. That's just the way it is.
The argument that only having one state champion will prevent kids from gaining scholarships and prevent quality kids from going can all be fixed by re-zoning the sections to make things more fair. Does it really make sense to have section 10 participate the way the format is currently? Not at all. Should Section 8 be a part of division 2? Not at all. Make it make sense for the sport specifically and a One tournament format WILL work. How well a region does at the state tournament will determine how many at-large bids a region will recieve (specific to weight class). I think a 32 man bracket will work if the regions and at-large bids are separated fairly. Right now, many of the pins and tech's are from weaker sections. For example. In Division 2, 13 out of 15 weight classes have a section 10 kid going 2 and out. In division 1, 12 out of 15 kids from section 10 went 2 and out. Please tell me we are sending our best? Please do not take this the wrong way. This is not a knock on the kid, it is a knock on the system. It does not make sense to send a kid, just to have them lose two matches and go home. You replace this kid with someone from another section or a representative from their region that is a stronger wrestler. It will help all of those schools and athletes.
Marty, I will agree that the biggest instigator of our current system is $$$ and unfortunately it is not going to change anytime soon, regardless if it is best for the athletes or not.
I remember hearing the argument that a D1 and D2 tournament would lead to more scholarships........that's not true........more than ever wrestlers from different parts of the country wrestle against each other........Eastern States.....Fargo........Super 32.........nobody cares if you're a two time D2 State champ unless you also do well at the big tournaments.
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Mar 3, 2015
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Dragtrip
Joined: Jan 16, 2013
Posts: 61
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LImarty wrote:The MAJOR deficiencies in the current wrestler ...is SET-UP and COUNTER. Old school guys hit their moves off mistakes and for every move their is a counter. This FUNK Gen- is not disciplined in finishing moves. Most times- it is half a move and then a scramble fest. Might look good yet, it is a significant display of lack of set-up. Rarely even the BEST kids stand opp their opponent without creating any angles-
Even the GREAT Jordan Burroughs - has gotten away with a TERRIBLE deficiency. He hits doubles off his knees- this is a NO- NO !!! Fortunately, he is the most superior in this current gen of wrestler at SET-UP. He hits his double when the wrestler is off balance , out of position, or has not reacted.
COACHING. Look with all due respect to the guys who put in the time. Many of today's Coaches werent GREAT wrestlers-and - who were not schooled correctly when they did wrestle. Many cant show a kid how to ride because they couldnt ride themselves. Most do not spend the time to REPETITIVELY DRILL simplistic moves until it is second nature. We have skipped- ALL - the other stuff just for the need to win. It has become this mentality. "My Mighty Mouse is better than your Mighty Mouse".
There is so much more..... but, who's listening to a JV Quitter..lol
WOW, now I know you are smoking crack Marty! Criticizing Jordan Burroughs...that's friggin great hahahah!
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Mar 3, 2015
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quickpick
Joined: Jan 9, 2015
Posts: 284
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LImarty wrote:Again, I might not be explaining myself correctly. Jordan Burroughs was special as a High School SR- I can attest to this after seeing him a handful of times. What I am suggesting is his ability to score- with his own technique that for a 100 yrs was thought to be a taboo way of hitting a blast double from your knees. His ability at being proficient in "set-up" has allowed him to be an Olympic Champ. His athletic ability has allowed him to hit doubles off his knees.
I guess my confusion came from you stating that his "terrible deficiency" was shooting off of his knees. If it works due to his athletic ability then I don't see it as a deficiency. Someone with a background in biomechanics of kinesiology might say that it is actually better to shoot from your knees due to your muscles being more heavily loaded and therefore producing more force on the way through the move. The deficiency lies in the fact that it takes more time to complete the move. Borroughs was able to do it because he was fast enough to pull it off without telegraphing the move to his opponent. For the most part I hate when kids wrestle from their knees. Most only do it to stall and prevent any action from happening. Borroughs used it to his advantage.
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Mar 3, 2015
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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quick,
There is a right and wrong way. For him it is the right way. More has to do with his timing- and- catching a wrestler out of position. If, his SET UP wasnt as good as it is...it definitely, would not be so effective.
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Mar 10, 2015
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quickpick
Joined: Jan 9, 2015
Posts: 284
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LImarty wrote:The MAJOR deficiencies in the current wrestler ...is SET-UP and COUNTER. Old school guys hit their moves off mistakes and for every move their is a counter. This FUNK Gen- is not disciplined in finishing moves. Most times- it is half a move and then a scramble fest. Might look good yet, it is a significant display of lack of set-up. Rarely even the BEST kids stand opp their opponent without creating any angles-
Even the GREAT Jordan Burroughs - has gotten away with a TERRIBLE deficiency. He hits doubles off his knees- this is a NO- NO !!! Fortunately, he is the most superior in this current gen of wrestler at SET-UP. He hits his double when the wrestler is off balance , out of position, or has not reacted.
COACHING. Look with all due respect to the guys who put in the time. Many of today's Coaches werent GREAT wrestlers-and - who were not schooled correctly when they did wrestle. Many cant show a kid how to ride because they couldnt ride themselves. Most do not spend the time to REPETITIVELY DRILL simplistic moves until it is second nature. We have skipped- ALL - the other stuff just for the need to win. It has become this mentality. "My Mighty Mouse is better than your Mighty Mouse".
There is so much more..... but, who's listening to a JV Quitter..lol
Marty I have got to tell you, after watching the BIG 10's this past weekend, this post was all I could think about watching Dylan Ness. How horrible does he look when someone actually takes a shot intending to finish? The fact that he has gotten away with letting guys get in deep and dumping them to their back is ridiculous. Another guy that sticks out to me is Jesse Delgado. While this type of wrestling may look more entertaining, we have gotten away from fundamentals to the point where this style wins National titles. On the other hand I love watching guys like Nathan Tomasello and hope that Delgado and Ness losing, and Tomasello winning is hope for the future of the sport. While Borroughs may have had "flaws" in his technique, atleast he was offensive for 7 minutes instead of waiting for the other guy to make a mistake.
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Mar 11, 2015
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goodshots
Joined: Feb 7, 2011
Posts: 58
Location: buffalo, n.y. |
Quickpick-
Your analysis is spot on. College wrestling has become unbearable to watch. In some matches there is only 1 or 2 shots the entire match. This is not just some here and there matches, its literally almost every match. Wrestling is in big trouble if the governing bodies don't do something about this. Mike Evans took third this past weekend at the BIG10's, and he didn't even register one takedown. EMBARRISING!!!
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Those who dont do the extra, fall behind |
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Mar 11, 2015
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mbsuxx
Joined: Feb 3, 2007
Posts: 462
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100% agree about Delgado and Evans ......... Neither one of them does much.
The freshman from Illinois, Isiah Martinez, looked really good against Ness.
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Mar 11, 2015
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techbandit
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
Posts: 779
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Delgado was a national champ and all i see him do is scramble. He's very talented and wrestles with great heart and determination...not much for offensive technique.
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