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Jul 22, 2015
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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Ok. I guess I got your attention.
WRESTLING is good- FARGO is expensive
For the love of this Sport- the best wrestlers in this Country can win in a rumble in a Denny's parking lot.
JMO- teaching NOVICE wrestlers too many styles does not benefit them in the long run yet, REPETITION of one style will allow you to master that style and eventually you can move to other styles.
I do not think kids especially novice wrestlers who havent mastered the TAKEDOWN/ the BREAKDOWN/ offensive /defensive skills will benefit from throws, partierres , leg laces, gutwrenches,....Again, become the BEST Folkstyle wrestler you can be and then if, you are successful- enjoy the future dreams you may have.
btw- Kyle Dake/ Jordan Burroughs did not become FS/GR Champions in Fargo...Many former FARGO Champions never wrestled an International match because they lost to better Folkstyle wrestlers along their way to the Senior level.
MANY will debate this -MANY will tell you different. The BEST way to become a better wrestler is to WRESTLE- not by briefly engage in style changes. REPETITION -REPETITION - REPETITION .
Last edited by LImarty on Jul 23, 2015; edited 1 time in total
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Jul 22, 2015
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east94000
Joined: Aug 6, 2011
Posts: 73
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What the ............! That is an interesting thought. With your way of thinking how long do you think it takes a kid to "Master" the folkstyle skills before they should be starting freestyle/ greco? Many kids that place in the states still make basic takedown/ defensive mistakes. Are you saying that those kids should not be introduced to freestyle/ greco because they have not "Mastered" those skills?
LImarty wrote:Ok. I guess I got your attention.
WRESTLING is good- FARGO is expensive
For the love of this Sport- the best wrestlers in this Country can win in a rumble in a Denny's parking lot.
JMO- teaching NOVICE wrestlers too many styles does not benefit them in the long run yet, REPETITION of one style will allow you to master that style and eventually you can move to other styles.
I do not think kids especially novice wrestlers who havent mastered the TAKEDOWN/ the BREAKDOWN/ offensive /defensive skills will benefit from throws, partierres , leg laces,....Again, become the BEST Folkstyle wrestler you can be and then if, you are successful- enjoy the future dreams you may have.
btw- Kyle Dake/ Jordan Burroughs did not become FS/GR Champions in Fargo...Many former FARGO Champions never wrestled an International match because they lost to better Folkstyle wrestlers along their way to the Senior level.
MANY will debate this -MANY will tell you different. The BEST way to become a better wrestler is to WRESTLE- not by briefly engage in style changes. REPETITION -REPETITION - REPETITION .
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Jul 22, 2015
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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The concept of wrestling year round is not a new idea yet, to break things up the year has always been Folk then summer FS /GR.
they say MASTERING a skill in any sport usually means at least 10,000 hrs.
My feeling is that the current BEST wrestlers in this Country didnt need Summer FS/GR wrestling to make themselves eventual NCAA Champions- yes, many engaged in 2/3 Style wrestling ....without going to Fargo- and without National HS FS/GR Championships.
MORE to me suggests- a wrestler has more success ONLY wrestling Folkstyle competitions to reach his full potential on the mat- then the switch of style (s) can be accomplished more successfully later in his career.
btw- nearly 99% of ALL wrestlers will never wrestle International competition inclusive of all former Fargo Champions
A FORMER GREAT HS SCHOOL COACH- A FORMER OLYMPIAN - once said " freestyle wrestling can better the "hips" of a wrestler"...suggesting balance. Most of his wrestlers who became State Champs and wrestled into college rarely wrestled FS competitions in the Summer. He maintained the same regimen of training his wrestlers in every decade in which he coached..70s, 80s, 90s, 00s, and had State Champions in EVERY decade...btw- his school size and participation continued to decline in each decade .
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Jul 23, 2015
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matburn
Site Admin
Joined: Nov 12, 2004
Posts: 3458
Location: WNY |
LImarty wrote:btw- Kyle Dake/ Jordan Burroughs did not become FS/GR Champions in Fargo...Many former FARGO Champions never wrestled an International match because they lost to better Folkstyle wrestlers along their way to the Senior level..
I think Dake's highest place finish was 3rd in both styles at Fargo. He did, however, win the 2008 FILA Jr Nationals and went on to FILA Worlds in Greco where (I think) he took 14th.
http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/5639
Burroughs wrestled in Jr. Worlds the same year, taking 10th in Freestyle.
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Go for the pin. |
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Jul 23, 2015
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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The MATURITY of a wrestler and his future success remains steadfast for 100 yrs. Those who put in the time- developing their level of skill and maintaining the highest level of preparation - WIN.
Mixing styles for the rest -imo- does not produce the highest quality from that individual in ONE style. Henry Cejudo imo after HS made the right choice wrestling at the OTC. While being a monster in neutral while in HS - he was not great on the mat. Im not too sure he would have been a successful collegian.
My post is about the NEED to impose a style(s) on novice wrestlers while they still havent successfully accomplished Folkstyle perfection. Style change success comes easier with mat maturity.
How many wrestlers in November/ while in a defensive position - hear the whistle, lie flat and do not move ...as conditioned in the summer in FS partiere. Ive seen kids who have wrestled Greco in the summer lose all ability in setting up a takedown while in neutral. They also become heavy on their feet- waiting-.
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Jul 24, 2015
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techbandit
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
Posts: 779
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This is an interesting debate...many good points. I think wrestling in any form will continue to improve a kid's skills. I def believe younger kids should develop sound fundamentals before specializing in any specific format, but i also think that most kids wrestling freestyle and greco are doing so to face tough competition. They will gain experience against kids other than just ones from nearby high schools that they see multiple times per year. When you say "master" a skill...at what level is "mastered" instead of proficient or solid? I have no problem with kids who have the resources (time,money,parental support) venturing out to seek new skills and compete against tougher competition. Other kids hone their skills at a good summer camp or even play other sports in the offseason, all this stuff is good. I remember recognizing how much better the kids in PA were when going there for summer wrestling camps. That level of wrestling helps kids get better, so does traveling and competing at a national level. It's all about motivation, setting goals, and working harder than the next kid to achieve them. Some great wrestlers have been wrestling FS and GR their whole life and they have a different skill set than those that are awesome scholastic wrestlers...both avenues pitch in to develop a wrestlers pedigree. Some of the best athletes (which make the best wrestlers) , don't even wrestle in the offseason because they are busy playing other sports, but then they don't miss a beat when it's "go time" during the season. Other kids need to dedicate and focus on only wrestling year round. Both scenarios can be beneficial. If you live near Warsaw, just get to know the Paddocks and enjoy great competition right in the infamous barn. Other kids need to travel to find anybody tough enough to train with.
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Jul 24, 2015
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techbandit
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
Posts: 779
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There is no substitute for time on the mat, anyway you wanna look at it. And so much of wrestling is cerebral too. Many variables will shape these athletes.
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Jul 26, 2015
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wrestlingny
Joined: Dec 10, 2008
Posts: 842
Location: Rochester New York |
Junior Freestyle All Americans
Jakob Restrepo, 5th at 160
Kevin Parker, 7th at 170
Cadet Freestyle All Americans
Adam Busiello, 3rd at 106
Jonathan Gomez, 4th at 113
Jacori Teemer, 7th at 120
Vito Arujau, Champion at 126 (and MOW)
Junior Greco Roman All Americans
Jesse Porter, 7th at 160
Jordan Bushey, 7th at 170
Aaron Paddock, 6th at 182
Cadet Greco Roman All Americans
Brandon Nunez, 4th at 94
Hunter Richard, 7th at 145
Vito Smolyak, 7th at 152
Trevor Snow, 8th at 170
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Jul 27, 2015
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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CONGRATS TO THE WRESTLERS.
I still question the significance in wrestling a style/ competition that is part time with a travel cost/lodging that is very expensive. Again, the probablity that any of these wrestlers will ever wrestle against International wrestlers outside of the USA is less than 1%.
jmo- Spend more time on your weaknesses and find a good camp. workout partner and/ or clinician to better your scholarship chances
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Jul 27, 2015
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johnnyrooster
Joined: Nov 28, 2008
Posts: 1097
Location: Hen House |
LImarty wrote:CONGRATS TO THE WRESTLERS.
I still question the significance in wrestling a style/ competition that is part time with a travel cost/lodging that is very expensive. Again, the probablity that any of these wrestlers will ever wrestle against International wrestlers outside of the USA is less than 1%.
jmo- Spend more time on your weaknesses and find a good camp. workout partner and/ or clinician to better your scholarship chances
King of the back handed compliment. Congrats to the above AA's. They don't give a rat's butt what you think. Way to go men!
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Jul 28, 2015
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techbandit
Joined: Jan 12, 2010
Posts: 779
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hey Rooster...What do you think about Hilton -vs-Bport this year...should be a good one. U guys are loaded w/ studs...Bport is deep as hell. Lookin forward to a good one!
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Jul 29, 2015
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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johnny,
BACKHANDED ???
I have always complimented ALL NYS wrestlers at every level and in every style. The IMPORTANCE of misguided preparation for their future has always been my cncern . Maybe, some of these summer time coaches need to find another job instead of pilfering off of novice wrestlers - in a style that doesnt need to be relevent and has no relevence toward Folkstyle.
The NYS DI College AAs have been on a decline and the state as a whole can be considered a 2nd tier HS state Nationally. Apparently, you can see the benefits in wrestling summer fs/ gr...and I cant.
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Jul 30, 2015
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quickpick
Joined: Jan 9, 2015
Posts: 284
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Marty, how do you propose we try to keep up internationally if we don't expose wrestlers to FS/GR early? I think to completely dismiss those styles and not acknowledge their relevance is a terrible idea. No other country competes in folk style wrestling and while I love it because I feel that reffed properly it's the most exciting style, realistically there are no opportunities after college to compete in folk style. Are you suggesting that we completely give up on everything but folk style?
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Jul 30, 2015
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LImarty
Joined: Nov 28, 2003
Posts: 1130
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quick,
First off, I dont like GIVING UP on anything....Ive been posting for nearly 17 yrs..lol.
In a perfect world with numbers thriving in this sport there would be NO concern about style. In New York state the recent rise in Club teams suggests to me that the sport is and has been in trouble for the past 20 yrs. Back in the day- wrestling rooms / open mats were all over the place on Long Island. Today, to get kids to come down to practice is now a chore. Coaches are even in that mix.
So, the current climate all over has some who are dedicated and the majority dabbling in different styles. PREPARATION and REPETITION is what I preach. A wrestler can become a GREAT freetyle wrestler in the future after he has refined his Folkstyle skills. It doesnt work the other way around. JMO- the summer should be for all the things you need to work on - SET-UPs, TAKEDOWNs, RIDING, WEIGHT LIFTING, RUNNING....and having fun.
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Jul 30, 2015
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quickpick
Joined: Jan 9, 2015
Posts: 284
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Set-ups and takedowns are very much the same in freestyle as they are in folk style. An effective duo will work in both styles at any level. I don't feel that clubs indicate trouble in the sport. What it does indicate is our capitalistic nature and money ruling everything. Coaches used to run open mats to better their team, not just make a buck. People have been duped into the fact that you "have to join a club to be successful" when realistically you can get better practicing the moves with the same person. The thing is that these clubs do provide repetition for the wrestlers. Many of the clubs up here have several good quality wrestlers, providing the athletes with several partners and lots of mat time if they want it. Just because it's not free anymore doesn't mean that the quality isn't there.
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